Deer Texans...

[Antonio Veranos]

Two words to describe your "win" and your coach: Bush League

The Competition Committee really needs to fix that rule.

Ah well, great game for those who like passing attacks.

[Hoover]

Post by Antonio Veranos
Two words to describe your "win" and your coach: Bush League
The Competition Committee really needs to fix that rule.
Ah well, great game for those who like passing attacks.
--
Antonio Veranos

I don't like that "time out" bullshit just before a field goal either.
But at least the Foreskins lost

[The Inconvenient Truth]

Post by Antonio Veranos
Two words to describe your "win" and your coach: Bush League
The Competition Committee really needs to fix that rule.
Ah well, great game for those who like passing attacks.
--
Antonio Veranos

I don't like that "time out" bullshit just before a field goal either.
But at least the Foreskins lost


Thank the Goddess that Hoover died. What a creep!

[JGibson]

Post by Antonio Veranos
Two words to describe your "win" and your coach: Bush League
The Competition Committee really needs to fix that rule.

Shanahan started it, so it's only poetic justice that it comes against
a team coached by him. Against his former OC no less.

[J.C. Watts Enslin]

Post by Antonio Veranos
Two words to describe your "win" and your coach: Bush League
The Competition Committee really needs to fix that rule.
Ah well, great game for those who like passing attacks.

The only way I can think of any rule change would be that no timeout
can be called after the holder is down and the kicker is in place.
But I don't know...part of me thinks that the defense can call timeout
whenever they want.

[[e-mail]]

<< Two words to describe your "win" and your coach: Bush League >>

Not true and I'm a Skins fans. The rules are the rules.

[The Undead Edward M. Kennedy]

Post by ***@aol.com
<< Two words to describe your "win" and your coach: Bush League >>
Not true and I'm a Skins fans. The rules are the rules.

Yup. And if what the defense notices it only has 10 men on
the field? Some dumb icing the kicker rule prevents them
from fixing that?

Icing is part of the game. It's crucial in basketball too.
Tough boogers.

--Tedward

[Matthew Hennig]

Post by The Undead Edward M. Kennedy

Post by ***@aol.com
<< Two words to describe your "win" and your coach: Bush League >>
Not true and I'm a Skins fans. The rules are the rules.

Yup. And if what the defense notices it only has 10 men on
the field? Some dumb icing the kicker rule prevents them
from fixing that?
Icing is part of the game. It's crucial in basketball too.
Tough boogers.

IAWTP

MH
--
Ten of Spades
Aggee Fedayeen Chief
Supreme Ruler of the Obvious
RSFC Rookie of the Year 2005
Time Magazine Person of the Year 2006

"We just got outplayed today. That's the bottom line. And we got
outcoached."
- OU Head Coach Bob Stoops following the Texas A&M game, Nov 9, 2002

[Antonio Veranos]

[J.C. Watts Enslin <***@charter.net>]
[Sun, 19 Sep 2010 16:59:14 -0700 (PDT)]

: The only way I can think of any rule change would be that no timeout
: can be called after the holder is down and the kicker is in place.

Once the kicker raises his hand or something, the play is irrevocably
started, maybe. All I know is this 'clever' crap needs to stop. By any
fair measure, the Redskins won tonight 30-27. Kubiak: Bush League.

[RichL]

Post by Antonio Veranos
[Sun, 19 Sep 2010 16:59:14 -0700 (PDT)]
: The only way I can think of any rule change would be that no timeout
: can be called after the holder is down and the kicker is in place.
Once the kicker raises his hand or something, the play is irrevocably
started, maybe. All I know is this 'clever' crap needs to stop. By any
fair measure, the Redskins won tonight 30-27. Kubiak: Bush League.

I agree with you on the rule. But dammit, all the coaches do it including
Shanahan. I think once the holder and kicker are set, no timeouts.

That being said, let's not forget that the 'Skins had a 17 point lead in the
third quarter. It shouldn't have come down to OT and that kick. Period.

[Antonio Veranos]

[RichL <***@yahoo.com>]
[Sun, 19 Sep 2010 20:46:39 -0400]

: "Antonio Veranos" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message
: news:***@news-europe.giganews.com...
: > [J.C. Watts Enslin <***@charter.net>]
: > [Sun, 19 Sep 2010 16:59:14 -0700 (PDT)]
: >
: > : The only way I can think of any rule change would be that no timeout
: > : can be called after the holder is down and the kicker is in place.
: >
: > Once the kicker raises his hand or something, the play is irrevocably
: > started, maybe. All I know is this 'clever' crap needs to stop. By any
: > fair measure, the Redskins won tonight 30-27. Kubiak: Bush League.
:
: I agree with you on the rule. But dammit, all the coaches do it including
: Shanahan. I think once the holder and kicker are set, no timeouts.
:
: That being said, let's not forget that the 'Skins had a 17 point lead in the
: third quarter. It shouldn't have come down to OT and that kick.

Agree on all above, and I'd be saying Shanahan's BL when he does it,
too. It's cheap, in my opinion, and I'd be booing my own coach if I was
at the stadium there to witness him pulling that kind of stunt.

[J.C. Watts Enslin]

Post by Antonio Veranos
[Sun, 19 Sep 2010 20:46:39 -0400]
: > [Sun, 19 Sep 2010 16:59:14 -0700 (PDT)]
: >
: > : The only way I can think of any rule change would be that no timeout
: > : can be called after the holder is down and the kicker is in place.
: >
: > Once the kicker raises his hand or something, the play is irrevocably
: > started, maybe.  All I know is this 'clever' crap needs to stop.  By any
: > fair measure, the Redskins won tonight 30-27.  Kubiak: Bush League.
: I agree with you on the rule.  But dammit, all the coaches do it including
: Shanahan.  I think once the holder and kicker are set, no timeouts.
: That being said, let's not forget that the 'Skins had a 17 point lead in the
: third quarter.  It shouldn't have come down to OT and that kick.
Agree on all above, and I'd be saying Shanahan's BL when he does it,
too.  It's cheap, in my opinion, and I'd be booing my own coach if I was
at the stadium there to witness him pulling that kind of stunt.

Sure you would.

[Antonio Veranos]

[J.C. Watts Enslin <***@charter.net>]
[Sun, 19 Sep 2010 18:08:55 -0700 (PDT)]

: > Agree on all above, and I'd be saying Shanahan's BL when he does it,
: > too.  It's cheap, in my opinion, and I'd be booing my own coach if I was
: > at the stadium there to witness him pulling that kind of stunt.

: Sure you would.

You're in no position to question my integrity, Enslin.

[J.C. Watts Enslin]

Post by Antonio Veranos
[Sun, 19 Sep 2010 18:08:55 -0700 (PDT)]
: > Agree on all above, and I'd be saying Shanahan's BL when he does it,
: > too.  It's cheap, in my opinion, and I'd be booing my own coach if I was
: > at the stadium there to witness him pulling that kind of stunt.
: Sure you would.
You're in no position to question my integrity, Enslin.  

Huh....yes I am. Don't post dumb statements in public forums and I
won't question them.

[Antonio Veranos]

[J.C. Watts Enslin <***@charter.net>]
[Sun, 19 Sep 2010 18:25:29 -0700 (PDT)]

: > : Sure you would.
: >
: > You're in no position to question my integrity, Enslin.  

: Huh....yes I am. Don't post dumb statements in public forums and I
: won't question them.

Maybe your integrity is lacking to the point that you would applaud
something when your team does it while booing it when another team does
it. I don't suffer from the same sort of spinal flexibility you do.

[J.C. Watts Enslin]

Post by Antonio Veranos
[Sun, 19 Sep 2010 18:25:29 -0700 (PDT)]
: > : Sure you would.
: >
: > You're in no position to question my integrity, Enslin.  
: Huh....yes I am.  Don't post dumb statements in public forums and I
: won't question them.
Maybe your integrity is lacking to the point that you would applaud
something when your team does it while booing it when another team does
it.  I don't suffer from the same sort of spinal flexibility you do.

I generally don't boo teams that are playing within the rules.

[[e-mail]]

Post by Antonio Veranos
Agree on all above, and I'd be saying Shanahan's BL when he does it,
too.  It's cheap, in my opinion, and I'd be booing my own coach if I was
at the stadium there to witness him pulling that kind of stunt.

Yep, and if the Skins won in exactly the same fashion as Houston did,
you would have posted here as well on what a bush league way it was to
win the game and that you would have preferred to have lost with
dignity.

[MoParMan]

Post by Antonio Veranos
[Sun, 19 Sep 2010 16:59:14 -0700 (PDT)]
: The only way I can think of any rule change would be that no timeout
: can be called after the holder is down and the kicker is in place.
Once the kicker raises his hand or something, the play is irrevocably
started, maybe. All I know is this 'clever' crap needs to stop. By any
fair measure, the Redskins won tonight 30-27. Kubiak: Bush League.

Sour Grapes!

[Antonio Veranos]

[MoParMan <***@sbcglobal.net>]
[Sun, 19 Sep 2010 20:27:44 -0500]

: Sour Grapes!

You should learn what that term means.

[MoParMan]

Post by Antonio Veranos
[Sun, 19 Sep 2010 20:27:44 -0500]
: Sour Grapes!
You should learn what that term means.

You should learn to keep your fucking mouth shut.

[Antonio Veranos]

[MoParMan <***@sbcglobal.net>]
[Sun, 19 Sep 2010 20:39:52 -0500]

: > : Sour Grapes!
: >
: > You should learn what that term means.
: >
: You should learn to keep your fucking mouth shut.

No call for that; you're the one misusing the term. Don't throw a
tantrum in my direction... I didn't make you butcher it!

[49er fan]

Post by MoParMan

Post by Antonio Veranos
[Sun, 19 Sep 2010 20:27:44 -0500]
: Sour Grapes!
You should learn what that term means.

You should learn to keep your fucking mouth shut.
--
---Scott From Cedar Hill---
If Government Is Big Enough To Give You Everything You Want,
Then It Is Big Enough To Take Everything You Have!!

Not the ORIGINAL moparman????

[Izzy Mandelbaum]

Post by Antonio Veranos
[Sun, 19 Sep 2010 16:59:14 -0700 (PDT)]
: The only way I can think of any rule change would be that no timeout
: can be called after the holder is down and the kicker is in place.
Once the kicker raises his hand or something, the play is irrevocably
started, maybe.  All I know is this 'clever' crap needs to stop.  By any
fair measure, the Redskins won tonight 30-27.  Kubiak: Bush League.
--
Antonio Veranos
What color does a smurf go when you choke it?

Maybe you should check the sports page again.

[Rast]

Post by J.C. Watts Enslin
The only way I can think of any rule change would be that no timeout
can be called after the holder is down and the kicker is in place.
But I don't know...part of me thinks that the defense can call timeout
whenever they want.

So let the DEFENSE call the timeout... you know, one of the players who
are actually out on the field playing defense. Not the coach standing
next to the linejudge, waiting for the long snapper to grab the ball
before he sneaks in a timeout that the 22 players on the field (not to
mention 90,000 fans) aren't aware of.

If, after the kicker and holder get set, a coach sees something he
doesn't like, he can shout at one of his guys on the field to call
timeout. If they can't get that done before the snap, then clearly the
coach waited too long to call timeout.

I'm not against icing the kicker, just against forcing him to kick it
twice.

PS: Regardless, the kick isn't why we lost. Our defense simply choked.

[Jim Carr]

Post by Rast

Post by J.C. Watts Enslin
The only way I can think of any rule change would be that no timeout
can be called after the holder is down and the kicker is in place.
But I don't know...part of me thinks that the defense can call timeout
whenever they want.

So let the DEFENSE call the timeout... you know, one of the players who
are actually out on the field playing defense. Not the coach standing
next to the linejudge, waiting for the long snapper to grab the ball
before he sneaks in a timeout that the 22 players on the field (not to
mention 90,000 fans) aren't aware of.
If, after the kicker and holder get set, a coach sees something he
doesn't like, he can shout at one of his guys on the field to call
timeout. If they can't get that done before the snap, then clearly the
coach waited too long to call timeout.
I'm not against icing the kicker, just against forcing him to kick it
twice.
PS: Regardless, the kick isn't why we lost. Our defense simply choked.

That won't change anything. Instead of the coach doing it, you'll have
players doing it. There's an advantage to coaches doing it because they
tell the ref what they are up to, and the ref can eye the ball closely
and judge whether he called the TO in time or not. If a player does it,
he won't be right next to a ref. There will be all sorts of disputes
about whether he called it in time or not. That would suck.

[Rast]

Post by Jim Carr

Post by Rast
So let the DEFENSE call the timeout... you know, one of the players who
are actually out on the field playing defense.

That won't change anything. Instead of the coach doing it, you'll have
players doing it. There's an advantage to coaches doing it because they
tell the ref what they are up to, and the ref can eye the ball closely
and judge whether he called the TO in time or not.

Tell the ref what's up? "Hey ref, I want to call timeout, but wait until
a couple secounds after the center touches the ball, so they end up
running the play before the timeout signal gets out to the field."

That seems OK to you?

Post by Jim Carr
If a player does it, he won't be right next to a ref.

Then he'll have to do it in a very visible manner, most of the players on
the field will see it, and they'll all hear the ref's whistle when he
grants the timeout.

Post by Jim Carr
There will be all sorts of disputes about whether he called it in time

Why it the world would you think this? Let's see:

Option A. Player standing in the middle of the field, probably within 10
yards of the ball, stands up and calls TO.
Option B. Coach standing way over on the sideline 30+ yards away, in a
crowd of people, sneaks a TO call into the linesman.

In CarrWorld, Option B leads to more disputes about whether the TO was
called in time. Also in CarrWorld, Dan Snyder has won four superbowls...
as a middle linebacker.

[Jim Carr]

Post by Rast
Tell the ref what's up? "Hey ref, I want to call timeout, but wait until
a couple secounds after the center touches the ball, so they end up
running the play before the timeout signal gets out to the field."
That seems OK to you?

Telling the ref to be on the alert for the coach telling the time-out is
a good idea. The coach still has to do it, and the ref still has to call
it honestly.

Post by Rast
Then he'll have to do it in a very visible manner, most of the players on
the field will see it, and they'll all hear the ref's whistle when he
grants the timeout.

Which will probably be *after* the snap even though the T.O. was called
before the snap. That's where the disputes arise.

Post by Rast

Post by Jim Carr
There will be all sorts of disputes about whether he called it in time

Option A. Player standing in the middle of the field, probably within 10
yards of the ball, stands up and calls TO.
Option B. Coach standing way over on the sideline 30+ yards away, in a
crowd of people, sneaks a TO call into the linesman.
In CarrWorld, Option B leads to more disputes about whether the TO was
called in time. Also in CarrWorld, Dan Snyder has won four superbowls...
as a middle linebacker.

Let me see if I can explain this so even you can understand...The snap
of the ball is detected visually. A coach yelling in a ref's ear allows
the ref to look at the ball while hearing exactly when the T.O. is
called. Your player scenario requires an official not looking at the
ball to see the player. There will be a lag time between the signal and
the detection of the signal as well as the indication that the signal
was received.

It really doesn't matter because the people with a bit of intelligence
already have the best system in place. Besides, your sniveling is just
for the sake of arguing.

[The Henchman]

Post by Antonio Veranos
Two words to describe your "win" and your coach: Bush League
The Competition Committee really needs to fix that rule.
Ah well, great game for those who like passing attacks.

Icing the kicker is a part of the game. Not a tactic I approve of but one
that's been establish as a tactic for a time now.

[Antonio Veranos]

[The Henchman <***@yup.org>]
[Sun, 19 Sep 2010 20:57:52 -0400]

: Icing the kicker is a part of the game. Not a tactic I approve of but one
: that's been establish as a tactic for a time now.

There is a difference between icing the kicker and waiting until
00:00:00.01 before the ball is snapped and calling timeout.

[MoParMan]

Post by Antonio Veranos
[Sun, 19 Sep 2010 20:57:52 -0400]
: Icing the kicker is a part of the game. Not a tactic I approve of but one
: that's been establish as a tactic for a time now.
There is a difference between icing the kicker and waiting until
00:00:00.01 before the ball is snapped and calling timeout.

Sour Milk!

[The Henchman]

Post by Antonio Veranos
[Sun, 19 Sep 2010 20:57:52 -0400]
: Icing the kicker is a part of the game. Not a tactic I approve of but one
: that's been establish as a tactic for a time now.
There is a difference between icing the kicker and waiting until
00:00:00.01 before the ball is snapped and calling timeout.

I disagree. It's Houston's timeout and they can spend it how they wish.
Wasting a time out to ice the kicker only is guaranteed in the dying minutes
of a game when a single pocession is left or something. Wasting their time
out in the manner they did could have come back to haunt the Texans.

Again I wouldn't have done what the Texans did then I would have lost the
game.

[J.C. Watts Enslin]

Post by Antonio Veranos
[Sun, 19 Sep 2010 20:57:52 -0400]
: Icing the kicker is a part of the game.  Not a tactic I approve of but one
: that's been establish as a tactic for a time now.
There is a difference between icing the kicker and waiting until
00:00:00.01 before the ball is snapped and calling timeout.

What is that difference?

One thing I appreciate about football is that it isn't stuck with all
of these stupid "unwritten rules" that cloud baseball. In football,
if it's legal it's acceptable.

[Antonio Veranos]

[J.C. Watts Enslin <***@charter.net>]
[Mon, 20 Sep 2010 05:35:29 -0700 (PDT)]

: > : Icing the kicker is a part of the game.  Not a tactic I approve of but one
: > : that's been establish as a tactic for a time now.
: >
: > There is a difference between icing the kicker and waiting until
: > 00:00:00.01 before the ball is snapped and calling timeout.
:
:
: What is that difference?
:
: One thing I appreciate about football is that it isn't stuck with all
: of these stupid "unwritten rules" that cloud baseball. In football,
: if it's legal it's acceptable.

Neither team in the play which didn't count knew timeout had been
called. The kicker kicked it, the Texans tried and failed to block.

Bush.

League.

[The Undead Edward M. Kennedy]

: > : Icing the kicker is a part of the game. Not a tactic I approve of
but one
: > : that's been establish as a tactic for a time now.
: >
: > There is a difference between icing the kicker and waiting until
: > 00:00:00.01 before the ball is snapped and calling timeout.
: What is that difference?
: One thing I appreciate about football is that it isn't stuck with all
: of these stupid "unwritten rules" that cloud baseball. In football,
: if it's legal it's acceptable.
Neither team in the play which didn't count knew timeout had been
called. The kicker kicked it, the Texans tried and failed to block.
Bush.
League.

Please. That time out didn't sink the world economy.

--Tedward

[4***@mydaja.com]

On Mon, 20 Sep 2010 00:40:59 +0100, Antonio Veranos

Post by Antonio Veranos
Two words to describe your "win" and your coach: Bush League
The Competition Committee really needs to fix that rule.
Ah well, great game for those who like passing attacks.

It was a good game. The Texans didn't have a lot of cheap shots, like
the Cowboy's last week. And a lot of holding. They proved why they
are a top offense.

Of course I wanted the Skins to win, but oh well. They let it slip
away. But it's only the 2nd game. If the Skins make 500 this year it
will be a success. With new coaches, system,qb. One has to be
realistic.

As for the Texans against the Boys. The Texans will have be wary of
the large amount of face mask tackles the Boys have been getting away
with. Ware brought down Cutler that way in the first quarter. No call.
A brief comment from homer Aikman. Who later blasted the Bears for
their late hit on Romo. It was called, and 15 yards, and a first down
was given.
I'll be rooting for the Texans against the Boy's next week.

Hail to the Redskins!!!

[MoParMan]

Post by 4***@mydaja.com
On Mon, 20 Sep 2010 00:40:59 +0100, Antonio Veranos

Post by Antonio Veranos
Two words to describe your "win" and your coach: Bush League
The Competition Committee really needs to fix that rule.
Ah well, great game for those who like passing attacks.

It was a good game. The Texans didn't have a lot of cheap shots, like
the Cowboy's last week. And a lot of holding. They proved why they
are a top offense.
Of course I wanted the Skins to win, but oh well. They let it slip
away. But it's only the 2nd game. If the Skins make 500 this year it
will be a success. With new coaches, system,qb. One has to be
realistic.
As for the Texans against the Boys. The Texans will have be wary of
the large amount of face mask tackles the Boys have been getting away
with. Ware brought down Cutler that way in the first quarter. No call.
A brief comment from homer Aikman. Who later blasted the Bears for
their late hit on Romo. It was called, and 15 yards, and a first down
was given.
I'll be rooting for the Texans against the Boy's next week.
Hail to the Redskins!!!

Fuck you pussy! Cowboys cheat as much as any other team. If you don't get
caught it isn't cheating...asswipe!

Now please go back to sucking slicks pussy.

[4***@mydaja.com]

On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 20:30:37 -0500, "MoParMan"

Post by MoParMan
<4

Post by 4***@mydaja.com
Hail to the Redskins!!!

Fuck you pussy! Cowboys cheat as much as any other team. If you don't get
caught it isn't cheating...asswipe!
Now please go back to sucking slicks pussy.

Well,now,what got your panties in a wad? MoPar eh? Still driving dad's
Volare?

[Jim Carr]

Post by Antonio Veranos
Two words to describe your "win" and your coach: Bush League
The Competition Committee really needs to fix that rule.

Sorry, guys, but the rule is a good one. Teams should always be allowed
to call one time-out when the ball is not in play. Period. That's how
the game works. Imagine how pissed you're gonna be when your defense has
10 men on the field or even worse, 12 men on the field, and you can't
call a time-out to rectify the situation. What if the coach sees
something that screams "fake kick" and wants to alert his guys?

Statistically, it makes no difference. This is based on 637 non-iced
kicks and 211 iced kicks under two minutes. Nothing to see here. Move along.

[Airyx]

Post by Jim Carr

Post by Antonio Veranos
Two words to describe your "win" and your coach: Bush League
The Competition Committee really needs to fix that rule.

Sorry, guys, but the rule is a good one. Teams should always be allowed
to call one time-out when the ball is not in play. Period. That's how
the game works. Imagine how pissed you're gonna be when your defense has
10 men on the field or even worse, 12 men on the field, and you can't
call a time-out to rectify the situation. What if the coach sees
something that screams "fake kick" and wants to alert his guys?
Statistically, it makes no difference. This is based on 637 non-iced
kicks and 211 iced kicks under two minutes. Nothing to see here. Move along.
--
When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.

Actually, kickers tend to like it, because it gives them a warm-up
shot, and a chance to make corrections. This is why most of the time,
you'll see them kick it anyway, even after the whistle blows.

[Jim Carr]

Post by Airyx
Actually, kickers tend to like it, because it gives them a warm-up
shot, and a chance to make corrections. This is why most of the time,
you'll see them kick it anyway, even after the whistle blows.

Whether they like it or not is irrelevant. The percentage of successful
kicks is unaffected.

[Futbol Phan]

Post by Antonio Veranos
Two words to describe your "win" and your coach: Bush League
The Competition Committee really needs to fix that rule.
Ah well, great game for those who like passing attacks.
--
Antonio Veranos

I don't like the inconsistency in the way the time is handled in these
split-second situations. Take the MSU/ND game on Saturday, where MSU
ran their fake FG just after the play clock had reached :00. On
Sunday the Big East officials who handled the call indicated that it
was the correct call-- the clock had run out a fraction of a second
before the play started, but, they ruled, you have to account for
human reaction time (which, presumably is in the .3-.4 sec range).
But this explanation is not always used (see the Spartan Bob UM-MSU
game in 2001, where the timekeeper anticipated a spike) and didn't
apply in the Skins-Texans game either.